Episode 21: Isaac Murdoch

On this episode we speak with Ojibwe Artist, Singer, Storyteller and Activist Isaac Murdoch. We discuss his long history of advocacy work, his focus on revitalizing and sharing his Ojibway language, his time at Standing Rock and the stark contrast between the advocacy work of his youth and the activism of today’s young people, and what it means for our communities.

Follow Isaac' on Instagram at @isaac_murdoch1 and be sure to check out his website at isaacmurdoch.com

This episode of Not Invisible: Native Peoples on the Frontlines was produced by Viktor Maco, Spirit Buffalo and J.B. Hart. Edited by Abbey Franz. Research by Sarah Rose Harper. Hosted by LeAndra Nephin.

This season of Not Invisible: Native Peoples on the Frontlines is produced with support from Earth Rising Foundation, our Patreon producers, Reena Krishnan and Kathy Duerr.

Additional support from our patrons at Patreon and Buy Me a Coffee.

Would you like to be a guest on Not Invisible: Native Peoples on the Frontlines, or know someone who would, drop us an email at redhousetvseries@gmail.com.

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Transcript

Isaac Murdoch  00:00
The systems are so strong. When I was younger, it was acceptable not to go to school. Today, it's like, it's there's a lot more pressure for young people to go to school. And also the the older people would say, you know, it's time to listen, you know, do you just listen. And because the elders aren't there, the young people have a voice, a stronger voice than they did when I was younger. But the guidance of the elders need to be there, too. And so I think that there's still some joining that we have to do to make sure that we can find a balance, a balance that that strong, and that's the other youth connection, and I believe that was hijacked by the government. I believe that colonization is really, really an intricate and very well oiled machine that prevents the transfer of knowledge from from one generation to the next. And I I see the young people wanting culture and language and all of these things, but there's just not enough opportunities, it seems.

LeAndra Nephin  01:08
Welcome to another episode of not invisible native peoples on the front lines. I'm your host, Leandra kniffin. Joining us today is Ojibwe artist, singer, storyteller and activist Isaac Murdock. We discuss his long history of advocacy work, his focus on revitalizing and sharing his Ojibwe language, his time at Standing Rock and the stark contrast between the advocacy work of his youth and the activism of today's young people and what it means for our communities. Thank you for joining us. Welcome Isaac Murdoch. Thank you weed the HA for for joining me today. I wondered if we could start off with the introduction to you and to your work and the things that you're involved with for our listeners.

Isaac Murdoch  01:57
Sure on a blue was an African guy going up in this because can a big oak so because white and don't ba nausea and though them our national being an en da Tao limpiar has become min da on getting in DME. Yah, yah mon P. We've known in the book. My name is Isaac Murdock, my traditional Ojibwe name is the man who paints the rocks. And I come from the village where the serpents are painted on the rocks. I'm Ojibwe. And I currently live at a place called nimki osmocon, which means Thunder Mountain. And I'm very happy to be able to be here to speak with us today.

LeAndra Nephin  02:38
Oh, where the privilege is all ours, I'm really excited to get to know you delve a little bit deeper into your work. I guess the first thing I want to kind of start off with is how did you get started in doing activism or artwork or what what came first for you in terms of your journey throughout life?

Isaac Murdoch  02:56
Well, I think I was born into it. And so for, for me and my people in our village. We were born right into it. So we were born into, you know, excessive mining, very devastating mining practices were born into, you know, massive deforestation, were born into very deep racism from society. We're born into the Indian Act, we were born into very oppressive systems. So just naturally, you know, the people in my village and my family were just naturally born land and water protectors. They're very involved right from day one in my family, this goes back probably over 250 years, that our people have been defending the lands here. And so we don't call ourselves activists, we were initially hobby. And you know, being a snobby we have responsibilities, which is of course, helping protect the forest. And so for my family, this has been, it's part of our way of life, it's who we are. And it's what's ingrained into our belief systems and our values. And it's also part of our allegiance that we have with, you know, the animals and the birds and the trees and the, you know, the sky in the clouds and the stars and the waters and everything else. So it's, it's much more than activism. It's, it's a way of life because, you know, ecologically biologically, we are connected, you know, with with the earth. And I think everybody is so I mean, it's not like nobody's not somehow an indigenous species to their environment. And so, me being an indigenous species to our environment here, you just inherent, inherently get that responsibility to protect your who you are, you know, so it's been it's been a great journey. That's I started right from birth. My parents were both very active as well, and they're in their younger days. And so I was just born right into it.

LeAndra Nephin  05:00
And I think this is true for a lot of native peoples who grow up, particularly connected to their communities and their land. And as you said, we're all indigenous to our land somewhere, we all have that connection. And even when you talk about those themes of how we define our relationship to being or belonging in relation to or are the cosmos allowed to water to our plant relatives, animal relatives. So in terms of that work, then as you as you mentioned, kind of being born into that. What was that kind of? Did you grow up around? You know, getting involved in movements? Or, you know, what kind of happened next for you? Was your artwork, kind of your part of action? Or what what's your what's your timeline? Basically, your your story in terms of your life journey?

Isaac Murdoch  05:57
Yeah, that's, that's a really good question. So I grew up in a family, like my mother was very, very strong. And, and, you know, making sure that it was made aware that we need to protect the lands and waters, say, with my father, as a young child, they were certainly activists, if they're, they were viewed as activist, but they were really indigenous land and water protectors that were, you know, protecting their homelands and not giving consent for the destruction of their lands, which is different than activism. And so, you know, I grew up seeing some of that. And, of course, all of our ceremonies, and, you know, all of our gatherings and all of those types of things. Land and Water Protection is always in there, we're always praying for the land, we're always trying to ask for help. And so that's, that was always ongoing throughout my entire life, pretty much wasn't until I was a teenager, that I started to really get more involved with it. And so, you know, this is back in, like, the 80s sort of thing, when, you know, I was more conscious about, you know, different companies and different actions that were taking place, like Procter and Gamble, and, you know, like, I was actually more more active and more involved with things at that time, I was also a bit of a rebel at the same time, because of the, I think the intergenerational effects of residential school played a part in this frustration in this anger that I had. So it had to come out somewhere. And so you know, protecting the lands and waters seemed like, it would be a good place to release it. And so, you know, when I was younger, I was, I was doing things, you know, as a teenager, and I wasn't a part of an organization or anything, but I would, I would start to, you know, like, I remember, I don't even know if I should tell you this. But I remember, you know, there'd be certain logging companies that had big operations and things like that. And I would go in there, and I would, I would tamper with the machinery, as a young person, you know, I was very, very, I was a good Bush, Bush kid. And I was already tampering with machines, and, you know, making sure that they wouldn't work and things like that, and other things. And so, right, from a very early age, I had a very strong passion, you know, that was on fire, right from the get go, I don't remember a time when I didn't exist. And then, of course, is, as I became into an adult, then there was more, you know, I was I was able to understand things a little bit more and be a part of organized actions and organized events where we're actually participating in protecting the land. And so in my younger 20s No, I was all over the place trying to stop pipelines and, and those types of things, Enbridge, and, you know, it was, it was quite an education. And at that time, you know, it was not a lot of awareness going around about these things. And, you know, it was, it was like, people were wondering why we're doing it, because we were, we were actually saying, We don't want you to work for these for this oil company. And so, you know, we were villains at the time, lots of times amongst indigenous people, even at that time, because what we stood for was, you know, having their jobs taken away. And so, it was difficult in the beginning, there was lots of resistance from indigenous people, especially regarding the pipeline. And so it you know, there was some really great people that were a part of that like, there is, you know, Cliff Tolly aka and there is Dennis Thor, and there's like, these really incredible elders that that We're actively trying to stop Enbridge and trying to come up with strategic planning and trying to get the, you know, more First Nations on board. But what was happening was Indian Affairs was, was cutting down their funding. And they were, you know, giving the money to the, the oil companies. And so the band's would have to sign deals with the oil companies in order to keep their programs and services running. So a lot of poverty, politics were happening in those days, and people were poor. And so you can't really blame anybody. I mean, the government was just really horrible. And, but at the same time, we had to be consistent with our message, which was no pipelines. And that's when I started to get more involved with organized the strategic planning on trying to stop the pipelines was in my early 20s. Of course, as time went on, you know, we realized that, you know, ceremony had such a big part to in that, and in our ceremonies, and our songs, and all of those things played a part. And, you know, letting the world know, that we're a part of this land, and we don't want these pipelines. And now the 30 is the same thing. And that was kind of always a part of, you know, different things that were happening. And, but it wasn't until my 40s, when I started to, you know, really start hitting everything with art, you know, and the art made a big difference in I think, in gathering people together in salt under, you know, solidarity, I think the art was a way to attract people, and to get people under the same banner. You know, so that wasn't so divisive. And that was, that was really important. And so the art was like a whole new phenomenon. It was its own thing. You know, so for me art, you know, came later in life, but it was, it was good, it was necessary.

LeAndra Nephin  12:06
So you can see how even your artwork is informed by those early life, years of action in organized action, when you were younger, and I guess, coming up, and being involved in those movements. Were there a lot of other young people, you know, your peers, relatives that were doing the same things that you were doing?

Isaac Murdoch  12:27
No, oh, there wasn't, there wasn't, it wasn't a young person's movement. These were these were very old people. And the younger people were like, the ones that were, you know, that all had university degrees. And they were all like, very progressive with with mining and logging and, and fossil fuel extraction, you know, so it was very different. It was it was not a young person's movement. Back in those days, it was mainly elders, that were that were leading with that movement, and primarily, male elders at the time. And so that's things have really changed since then.

LeAndra Nephin  13:03
Yeah. And that's a really interesting kind of point in terms of that generational gap. I mean, what was that like for you, then being young and growing up and being a part of these really important movements then, but sort of being isolated from your peers, in a sense,

Isaac Murdoch  13:20
it was, it was good for me, because it was an education that I needed, you know, like, I don't have much of an education, I got a grade five education. So it was kind of important for me to get educated and to understand how the world works and, and those types of things through the lens of these elders. So that was a blessing in disguise. No, it was really good that it was like that. I did get to miss out on lots of things, you know, always hanging around old people. But when I look back, like what I missed out on partying, you know, like, it's the rewards of being with those old people are much greater than than any sort of loss I would have had by hanging around younger people at that time.

LeAndra Nephin  14:00
Yeah. And I guess that leads to my next question, in terms of the youth activists of today, what is your thoughts about the work that they're doing? And what differences in similarities do you see in the work that you did? When you were coming up and growing up throughout your formative childhood years to the youth activists of today?

Isaac Murdoch  14:21
Well, it's very different. Like when I was younger, I wasn't really allowed to have a voice, you know, so I was there to listen and learn and to work. And that was it. You know, so my job was to provide physical labor to listen, and to really pay attention to what was being said. So I was like a recording machine. And so in hopes that I would be able to riegert regurgitate this information later. So I didn't have a voice. And that was a lot of physical work. And today, the young people have a big, big voice and there's not a lot of physical work. Everybody's On the devices, so it's different. But at the same time today, I think that there's a greater advantage that young people have simply because there's nothing like young energy. And there's more young people that are involved in the movement than there was before. And so when you can get young people that are organized and that are strategic, and that are, you know, very, very diverse, then they're their force of nature. So the young people today can do so much more than what we could have done 35 years ago, hands down. And plus, you know, there was a lot of education, a lot of people that were gender specific or to spirit, you know, they really have their voice, and a lot of places, and that's getting stronger. And that just adds strength and wisdom to the, to the younger people's movement, which we didn't have when I was younger. And so there's, it's stronger today than it was when I was younger. And at the same time, there is things that the younger people can can learn from the past. So for example, you know, being outside doing the physical, hard work, you know, and also listening a lot more. I think that's also important. And so there's, you know, a lot of old people that, that have a wealth of information that goes back a long time, and I'm talking about cultural information, and, you know, spiritual information that the young people can have. And I think that there's a, there's a bit of a divide, because of colonization, it's not the same anymore, it's different. You know, colonization was so bad, that, you know, the separation and the divisiveness between elders and young people, you know, hasn't been like this in all my life, you know, having access to elders now is very difficult. And so it's not the young people's fault. It's not their fault. And so there's, there is a disconnect, I feel often, and that's, that's a real shame, because we're, you know, we're trying to revitalize the language, we have so many ceremonial things that we have to pass down and, and keep alive that are directly involved with water and land protection. But it's, it's, it can't happen, because a lot of our young people are engaged in systems that are very, very coloniality structured, you know, so kids today can't, they can't just do language all day, they can't do it. You know, they're forced to go to school, or if they have to go to university, the systems are so strong. When I was younger, it was acceptable not to go to school. Today, it's like, it's, there's a lot more pressure for young people to go to school. And also the the older people would say, you know, it's time to listen, you know, do you just listen. And because the elders aren't there, the young people have a voice, a stronger voice than they did when I was younger. But the guidance of the elders need to be there, too. And so I think that there's still some joining that we have to do to make sure that we can find a balance, a balance that strong. And that's the elder Youth Connection, and I believe that was hijacked by the government. I believe that colonization is really, really an intricate and very well oiled machine that prevents the transfer of knowledge from from one generation to the next. And I see the young people wanting culture and language and all of these things, but there's just not enough opportunities, it seems. And so I think that until those two things meet, you know, the young people and the old people, I think that, you know, it's not going to be as strong, but you do see more connections being made every day. People are recognizing this, you know, and it's things are picking up becoming stronger because of it. But there is big, big differences, big differences. Like I said, I didn't, I wasn't allowed to talk about certain things. Because it wasn't my place. I never had that responsibility. At that time, I had to earn that responsibility by learning first. And by working physically fit, working hard is different today. Today, you can get on social media and not lift a board and you can say whatever you want. You know, it was different in my time, a different discipline, a different worldview, a different way of looking at things. But again, like I said, young people today will have the upper hand. And so differences but I think it's better today.

LeAndra Nephin  19:42
So how I guess when you think about the advent of social media and the power that it has, in conveying these messages, and I know for me, when I visit with the older ones in my community, they often talk about protocol when asking for that knowledge and really bemoaning the messages through an iPhone asking for prayers or asking for guidance and that it should be done properly by bringing tobacco and visiting me in person. And I mean, where do you see that convergence happening where we can bridge the gap of that divide between our elders and our younger population who are keen to learn more about our ways,

Isaac Murdoch  20:26
I think we need to return back to those old protocols, I think that the internet has been very damaging to how we learn things, you know, so I think that it's better to go to their house and give them tobacco, give them a gift, and sit with them. Nothing can replace that. And I think the Internet can be a very dangerous place for learning traditional knowledge as well. So I think that it's really important to take the time to put the devices down and go visit an elder in real life, you know, and actually go work and make a gift and give something nice. In my generation, we had to give the elder something nice, we had to work for something and get them something nice. No, just a tobacco was not, that was not right. You know, you gave them something nice. That's how they that's how they make their living. That's how they survive is through the the offerings of people. And so in my generation was very different. You had to give, you know, and you had to sacrifice for that knowledge. And so I think that it should still be like that today. It irks me that everything is done through the internet.

LeAndra Nephin  21:31
Yeah. And I guess, how do you balance that? And, you know, when we think about your social media presence, you share a lot of knowledge and storytelling, and how do you, I guess, reconcile that, in the knowledge that you're sharing to a wider global audience, I mean, incredibly important, powerful knowledge. And some of the stories that you share are absolutely beautiful. But how do you find that balance or the equipoise, between the modern and traditional way? Well, I

Isaac Murdoch  22:01
always try to keep like the stuff that you would have to earn the right to know, I don't tell that on social media. And that's where I make the distinction. So let's say for example, if you're learning about plants, and you're learning about, say, a certain remedy, or a certain mixture, that would take you, you know, years to know, and to learn from a person, but that you could actually Google it and find it in 10 minutes and learn and have the whole recipe like within a half an hour. No, I don't tell those things. Because I feel like it takes away from the experience of learning, like the journey of learning something is sometimes more important than what you're learning. And so I'm very careful what I share. And also, when you're dealing with some traditional things, to me, it's not right to share them on the internet, because they can cause harm when it's not done correctly. And so, you know, I'm always very careful what I share, simply because I don't want people to misuse the information or the plant information or the animal information or whatever it is, because sometimes those things you have to be schooled in. And you have to be educated in that way for many years. And so there's lots of things I don't say, simply because I feel that I have a responsibility to my people, and to make sure that, that nobody gets hurt, especially with traditional medicines and traditional knowledges that go back around that regard, like the health and the spirituality of some things, I will not share them at all on the internet. No, for example, if somebody has a heart problem, and I'm talking about a heart medicine, and I share that heart medicine, well, maybe that heart medicine is actually for somebody that has really, really thick blood, you know, and we're trying to fit in that person's blood up, we're trying to get more more red blood cells into their body. And, you know, and that's what that medicine is for, but it's called heart medicine. And then somebody hears that, you know, and, you know, has really, really the opposite sickness, and you give that medicine to them, it can kill them. You know, so those are the types of things like the miscommunications, like about some traditional things you don't share on the internet, because you have to really fully understand the whole thing about them. You know, like the creation stories and the songs and how to pick them and what are they called in the language and all of these things, like there's lots of things I think that should not be shared on the internet, but at the same time, if there's ways that we can empower our people and and try and get them engaged and you know, talk about beautiful things and where people can, you know, use your stories or the information to better improve their lives or motivate them into action. Then You know, I'm all for that too. But I clearly see like, there's a difference between the two.

LeAndra Nephin  25:04
Yeah, and I suppose in this day and age, you really have to be careful about that information. And I know that's something I often think about it, and not wanting to be the conduit towards somebody Miss representing or miss hearing, the way that something is explained. And so I want to kind of move on to some of the work then that you did, I know you do some work with amazing work with Christy Belcore. And you've got a number of different projects that you've been involved with, I wondered if you could just talk us through some of those projects that you've been involved in more recently

Isaac Murdoch  25:40
for definitely nimki osmocon, where I live is a really big part of, of, you know, the work that I do, you know, me and Christie work together, you know, back in the early years, you know, it was really fun, it was there was a, you know, lots of exciting work that we did together in terms of art and, and, you know, doing art builds and things like that, but ever since then nimki osmocon came along, you know, an mpr has become has been our, our focus for everybody in the camp. And so right now, that's our main focus, which is a language and land based learning camp, north of Elliott Lake, where we actually took land back and built a school and built a bunch of houses. And you know, we all live out here now. So that's really our main focus. But it was it was really great working with Christy in the past, and hopefully, you know, we'll do some more work in the future. But we're both pretty busy.

LeAndra Nephin  26:34
So talk me through how that got started then with a camp and building houses, how did you secure the, I guess, means and secure the land back? Can you talk us through that? How that all started and happened and the journey towards that?

Isaac Murdoch  26:49
Yeah, I mean, I mean, land back has has always been, you know, a thing for people, it's always been there. So I mean, we're really just continuing what the elders always talked about, you know, and I've always tried to do. And so we're just a continuation of the visions and dreams that our elders had, you know, so we're just, you know, they just take it so far. And then we're taking it a step further, and the next generation will take it even a step further. So we're just part of a much larger journey with our people. That has always existed ever since the time that Europeans arrived in our territory. And so you know, what, it feels great to be part of such a legacy of incredible people that have made this possible for us. And there is people like, like Peter or cheese that often talked about these things. And, you know, Dennis Thorne, nervous GOP Cardinal, there was like, Sam moves cap. And Allen, you know, there was, you know, all these really incredible elders, you know, there is Frank Lewis, and there is my grandfather and my grandmother, and like this, this whole land back thing, like started, you know, hundreds of years ago. So it was always, always around. It was just never phrased as land back. But it was always tried, like, people have always been on the land and hunted and fished, and they'd get arrested, and they try different areas. And, you know, they had to get passes. I mean, this land back thing has been going on for a very long time. And so, for myself, it was very important for me, because I'm, I'm not under the Indian Act, I refuse the Indian Act. And I also refuse to be governed by the Indian Act system. And so the reserve system really failed me. They couldn't provide me with anything. What, you know, my human rights were violated on the reserve my basic human rights, because I didn't have a status card. And so, you know, it was a matter of just surrounding myself with like minded people that were already a part of this, this greater vision that was already in place. And we all put down our heads together, and we just got to work. And we made it happen. And so this, this has been probably the greatest, you know, collective initiative that I've ever been a part of in my life. There's no doubt about it.

LeAndra Nephin  29:19
Yeah. And I think just to kind of get give a little bit of a shout out because I bought a couple of T shirts that your son is Ottoman collective that supports this work that you Yeah, and I think you've got a link on your social media profiles to support this work that you're doing, and buy T shirts and different things on your website. So it might be worth kind of shouting that out for other listeners who might want to support your work that you're doing out there.

Isaac Murdoch  29:48
Yeah, you can go to automate collective.com Isaac murdock.com or Christi Belcourt. a.com, like all of them will kind of lead you to the same sort of places. It's import I didn't know that we never accepted government funding, not one red penny for this place. And we're very proud of that we've fundraise, you know, we, we have we made partnerships with people that were just absolutely amazing. And so, you know, for us, it was really important to have those standards where we weren't, you know, dependent on government funding is something that we wanted to do as a free people on our land, you know? And so it's, it's been a really amazing journey.

LeAndra Nephin  30:31
Yeah, it has. And speaking of journey you are now or have you always had one foot in the music world? Or is this a more recent foray into making music,

Isaac Murdoch  30:43
I was always like a, like a, like a campfire guitar player, you know, and I come from a very musical family. And so my dad and my grandparents and uncles, and they were all like very talented, extremely gifted musicians that were well known, you know, in their areas for, for what they did. And so, you know, I was very blessed to come from that, that genealogy of, you know, musicians. And so again, I didn't get into it until my mid 40s, really. And I started to start writing songs and starting to get into music and start to think about how to get this stuff out there. And, you know, it was for me, it's, it's an ongoing process, but I love making music. I wish I would have done this long time ago. But it just wasn't my time. Now's my time. You know, so I love it. It's great.

LeAndra Nephin  31:37
Yeah, it's amazing that the different kind of strands to your creativity and the work that you're doing, I wondered if I guess what your thoughts were, then in terms of Standing Rock, and they're kind of more up and coming movements that have come out of that? What What are your thoughts on that? And what are your thoughts on that? land back, you know, hashtag land back? What does that all mean for you,

Isaac Murdoch  32:02
to me, it means physically going back to the land. And this also means taking land back. And so I think that personally, we should have such a movement where we have like, like 1000 Standing rocks happening all at once. You know, because we have the, because we have the numbers, you know, like we're in we're in severe abrupt climate change that they're calling irreversible, the world is suffering a massive ecological collapse. And so if there could be 1000, standing rocks, and if somebody said, Can you press the button to make that happen? I press it, like, before they even finish the sentence, I wholeheartedly believe that indigenous people play a very important role in the ecosystem, they provide a diversity and a protection that's not there. And so when you, you know, insert indigenous people back onto the lands, you know, because we have to remember the, we have 1000s and 1000s of years of history and knowledge and traditional information about those lands, that's where our ancestors are buried. And so when you start inserting indigenous people back onto those lands, you can be guaranteed that, you know, things are going to be protected. And that's not a bad thing. Right now, we need 1000 Standing rocks all at once. I would support that, I think, you know, and that's this is something we don't ask to do. The land back is not something that you get permission for. You know, did they get permission? Like did when I got picked up by Indian agents? Did they asked for permission? When they took all of our land? Did they ask for permission? When they put all the mining companies in a logging in there? Did they ask for permission? Or when they stretch pipelines all over the world? Did they ask for permission? They did not. They just did it. And there was a massive genocide against indigenous people when they did it. And so I don't think we need to ask permission anymore. Our lands were stolen, we need to take some of it back. And we need to go hard and we need to go now. There's no question. We provide a certain medicine and a very certain quality that's needed. It's not a bad thing. It's a good thing. It's a medicinal thing. So I encourage people to take land back 1000 Standing rocks, that's what we need.

LeAndra Nephin  34:19
100% agree with you on that. One of the things that kind of stands out for me, particularly as you know, I work as a complex trauma therapist and some of the words that you share on social media talk about your own journey towards healing. And I'm wondering how much of the work that you've been involved in, and the ceremonies that you take play, take part in has helped on that journey towards healing?

Isaac Murdoch  34:46
Well, I think healing is really important because you know, to have a successful group of people that are on the same team that are on the same page, they're moving forward in the same direction. You have to have a certain amount of people that or that are healthy enough to be able to engage in that sort of a process. And so no, I always tell people, like movements get destroyed by people that are toxic, that are suffering from the intergenerational effects of, of residential school. And so, you know, you see it all the time, where people were, they're just too damaged. And, you know, it really does cause a lot of problems amongst movements. And so healing is very important. And that's why I promoted because we have to have healthy people and these movements, and I found myself, you know, not being very healthy at all. You know, I found myself not up to par where I could be. And so, no, I thought about it, I was brand new dad, and I was getting, you know, getting having another child. And I thought you need to really work on your mental health and your spiritual health. And, you know, you need to work on the traumas, you know, if you're going to be successful in what you want to do, because you need to be an asset, not a liability. And so, you know, dealing with, you know, the trauma that, you know, especially the sexual abuse, and, you know, the physical abuse, and you know, the dispossession, all of those things was really important, and also the pollution to our lands. So it's like, when we see our lands being devastated by nuclear waste, you know, that's an abuse that that is also on our spirit. And so it was important for me to, to, to really work through all of those things. My daughter, Elaine, lives in northern Saskatchewan. And I remember when she was a kid, you know, they really wanted her to go to residential school. And we said, No, so we kept her out of school for the first year and a half of her school years, because we didn't want her to go to residential school. And my child, Wabi Guan is the first child in my bloodline that has not been taken away by Indian agents, and 120 years. And so it's really important, you know, to work on the traumas, and to work on making sure that we're in a very good situation of safety. And these movements, because it's always, you know, trauma will always find a way, it's like water in a way where trauma will leak into something, freeze and crack and break it. You know, and maybe that's a bad analogy, because I like water, but trauma does exist. Also think recognizing that trauma doesn't is not what defines us either. You know, we have blood lines, and we have blood memory, and our bodies are filled with water. And so when I think about things, you know, it can't always be about trauma, it always has to be about the celebration of who we are to, we have to really mix the two together. And so doing trauma work is extremely important part of that trauma work is celebrating who we are as indigenous people. And so absolutely critical work. If we don't do trauma work as a people and lots of people are, then the movements simply won't be as effective. There'll be very divisive, and they'll they'll crack easily. Because we'll have a whole bunch of unhealthy people, residential school made made things really hard for our people, but we're resilient. And you can see a big healing movement happening right now. I always advocate, you know, for men to heal, and to talk about, especially sexual abuse, trauma, and sexual violence, I think that's really important to talk about. It wasn't easy for me to bring these things up in public. But I felt that it was really important to talk about them the way that I did. And the way that I continued to do, we have to have healthy families and healthy people and safe places. So I think that it's really important to do this work.

LeAndra Nephin  38:48
It is really nice to see, particularly our men, you know, taking the helm and doing this work. You know, a lot of our people are working on that journey towards healing. And it's really beautiful to see this. And I guess, to just end our conversation. What what happens next for you, Isaac, what do you see in terms in your future? Or what? What advice would you give to up and coming young ones who are following your journey?

Isaac Murdoch  39:21
I always tell people, you know, like, find out what your gift is. And do that. No, find out what your gift is. Because chances are if you follow your true gift, it's going to complement the earth somehow. And, you know, like I'm an author, like you said, a storyteller, a musician, an artist. That's just my gig. What's going to happen in the future? I'm not too sure. But I find myself you know, going back to my original gift that I received as a child, you know, during my vision quest, and returning back to the land even more and sort of disappearing from me same society and being more a part of the environment where I was, you know, raised and trained and and how I lived. So I see myself sort of fading away into the sunset and doing my Indian stuff in the bush, and just not not even being known by anybody. I mean, that's my hopes. Anyway,

LeAndra Nephin  40:21
that sounds like a wonderful place to be, particularly when we talk about the capitalist structures where productivity and output is measuring moral wealth. And so I think, to fade away and live in connection with land, there's actually a really beautiful vision. Oh, wonky, they weave the heart I thank you for your words today. I thank you all to our listeners. I can't wait for this podcast to be aired. We've the heart thank you

Isaac Murdoch  40:53
all good to me glitch. I'm very, very happy to be able to speak with you and, and I always get nervous on radios and pot podcasts and things. But maybe next time we'll sit down around the fire and we'll just have a real deadly conversation.

LeAndra Nephin  41:12
This has been not invisible native peoples on the front lines, a house on fire production. To learn more about Isaac and his work follow him on Instagram at Isaac underscore Murdock one. This episode is produced by Victor Mako, spirit Buffalo and JB hearts. Our editor is Abby France. Research by Sarah rose Harper. Our theme song is another side by wild whispers produced by Ben Reno, Eli love and Megan Lee. This season of not invisible is produced with support from Earth rising Foundation, our Patreon producers Kathy door, Rena Krishnan and Brenda George. We'd like to give a special shout out to all of our Patreon supporters. YouTube can become a patron by finding us at Red House series on Patreon or buy us a coffee links in our show notes and on our website at Red House series.com longer than we've the hump I thank you all