Pam Palmater: Us working together in solidarity helps empower one another. We're stronger together, so if the grannies know that while they're sitting on the front lines, there is some warriors in the background making sure that the area is safe and still accomplish what our goals are.
LeAndra Nephin: That was award winning public speaker, author and social justice activist Pam Perlmutter. On this episode of Not Invisible Native Peoples on the Front Lines, Pam joins me to discuss indigenous advocacy in academia and her work with Idle No More. Thank you for joining us. I'm your host, Leandra Nathan. So today we're joined by Pam Pulmonaire. Could you just introduce us and talk us through some of the things that you have been doing, some projects you've been involved in and what it is basically that you're doing nowadays?
Pam Palmater: First of all, thanks for having me on this program. I am so excited. I love the work that you do. And for people who don't know me. Pam Palmater, I'm from the sovereign nation on unceded Miꞌkmaq, which is pretty much known as Atlantic Canada. And we have a little bit of territory in Maine, and my home community again is our first nation. It's a tiny first nation located in New Brunswick. And for me, I have a huge family. I have eight sisters and three brothers and probably like other native family, I have a million cousins, so I don't know the exact number is. But let's just say I come from a huge family, and one of the awesome things about my family is that most of my brothers and sisters were older than me and they were very politically active. And so when I was a little girl growing up, I was literally a part of everything they were doing. So whether it was community information sessions, whether it was advocacy, whether it was protest marches, rallies, you name it, they drug me along there. So I have been just a part of this. You know, people often ask, When did you get into this role of advocacy or activism on the ground? It's like, Oh, that's just a part of it. That's just absorbed through me in my family. So I'm really thankful to them for that because it made me be a part of all dimensions of indigenous advocacy.
Pam Palmater: So what's happening in communities on reserve? What's happening to people off reserve this federal control over indigenous identity here in Canada? You know, Aboriginal and treaty rights, land rights, discrimination, genocide, residential schools, murdered and missing indigenous women and girls like literally the whole gambit. And I had the opportunity when I was going through school to volunteer and sit on different non-profit organizations dealing with off reserve housing, native women's issues, for example, general issues related to on reserve and off reserve different indigenous peoples and organizations. And that was really powerful to me. In fact, I didn't even want to go to university because I was so engaged. I felt like I had such a strong purpose in advocating for people who didn't have a voice or who were struggling, and I thought, my place is on the front lines. My place is in these areas, but my wise older brothers and sisters said, You know what? We're pretty sure all these issues are still going to be here if you go to university. So why don't you just try it? And once I was in university, it was just like a sponge. I wanted to know everything because no matter how much you know from your own upbringing, there's always so much more. I realized that it's not just me, my people suffering these issues, it's also holding tension and Wet'suwet'en and Cherokee and Lakota and Lakota and all like, we're all have these experiences.
Pam Palmater: So it really broadened my mind and really inspired me that once I was done my education, we have to find ways to act in solidarity and lift each other's voices. In addition to doing the work in our own home nation. So that's kind of where I was and my path. Oh my goodness. I didn't choose my path. It just kind of laid out before me, you know, I went to school and I was like, Oh, maybe a law degree will be great, and I become a lawyer and do some work there and then do graduate work and end up getting my doctorate and then end up at a university. And I'm an academic. And the great thing about that now I'm the chair in indigenous governance at Ryerson University is of a full time job that pays the bills so I can do the advocacy full time job on the side without not being able to pay the bills. And what's great about it is my life and my purpose and my work life and my side advocacy life. They all combine together, so it's not like one starts at one hour and one is the next. It's literally all together
LeAndra Nephin: Now, and I like how you kind of were almost kind of brought up in this life of, you know, resistance in terms of indigenous ways and life ways. So in terms of kind of having that early life education and having this calling to enter into work around advocacy? Did you find that blending of kind of the western education with indigenous kind of life ways? How did you manage to balance that as you walk that path?
Pam Palmater: That is such an important question. It is literally the foundation of how I am here today, and I'm still OK because before even going to school, I'm literally grounded in the traditions and. Customs and histories and narrative and politics and ideologies and purpose of the Myanmar people of my family who taught me about the importance of standing up, speaking out against injustice and trying to rebuild our nations before he went to school and then any time there were problems at school. I mean, I'm sure I don't have to tell you, but I was taught when I was going to school that Indians died off a long time ago and treaties were just like metaphorical documents. They weren't. They didn't have any purpose. And so every time I learned something terrible like that in school, I would go home and my brothers and sisters would just be beside themselves, but then teach me the truth. And then why I'm being taught these terrible things, for example. And so I always had them, always. They might not have known the answers to everything they might, just like any family. They don't know all of the historical details and all of the legal court cases and all of that stuff. But they had the enough to be able to counter that misinformation so that, you know, you take that them and, you know, that kind of traditional grounded education.
Pam Palmater: And once I go into university, I'm already good, like I've been well trained and educated by my family and my community and elders and people that I've worked with and volunteered with on the front lines. But by the time I get to university, where I'm ready, I'm ready to critically engage, I'm ready to challenge, I'm ready to not be horrified by some of the things that I might learn in law school, for example, and that that is so important. I think that in any ways that we can help share this education with one another, our traditional forms of education so that we're empowered when we go and get this formal education. That way, we can use the tools in the Western education system for our own purposes and be able to critically engage and deconstruct them without being overwhelmed or pushed over by them. And so again, I'm super thankful to my family and all the other social justice activists that I grew up around because, you know, we had large extended families all working in different areas because you can't get that in a book anywhere. You know, more and more today we're writing about it, but you just got stuff is precious. It's priceless.
LeAndra Nephin: I like how you kind of express your early life experiences and how they really kind of carry you through those kind of colonial spaces, which academia can really be almost kind of retraumatizing sometimes in the narratives that you're exposed to. So when you think about the kind of call for decolonising academia or decolonising schools or curriculum, I mean, what are your thoughts on that? I mean, what do you think about that kind of call to to decolonise academic?
Pam Palmater: Well, I think it's long overdue. I mean, think about even my own kids were taught misinformation. And, you know, like, I'm not that old and my kids aren't that old. And for me to have to make sure I'm constantly countering it, constantly having parent teacher conferences and school conferences saying, you can't teach this stuff to kids, that puts an awful burden on individuals. It puts a heavy burden on kids who may not have the infrastructure at home or who may not have people at home to counter this misinformation. It puts a heavy burden on parents to constantly be at odds in the education system, and then your kids end up suffering the consequences. How there's that, people react to that. But when the obligation is on the institution, that takes the weight off of us to have to do all the heavy lifting because the problem's never been us or our culture, it's them and their racism and their white supremacy and the erasure of our histories and the propaganda that you find in all of their political documents and historical documents. And that's a lot of hard work to undo. And that's their work to do because there's only so many of us and we can only do so much of that work. They should engage with us, of course, in paid labor. But it really is their work to do.
Pam Palmater: And thank goodness because we're at a stage where at the university I work at. When I was part of the idle no more movement and I was one of the spokespeople and for anyone who's listening doesn't know about idle. No more is Canada's largest social movement. Just this grassroots organic movement that lasted for well over a year. It was protest marches and rallies, but it was also litigation. It was also strategic advocacy. I mean, we were everywhere, challenging the government on all of their discriminatory, hurtful laws and policies against us. So imagine I'm an untenured professor at a university and I'm the spokesperson for. A little more leading marches, leading protests, blockades of the border between Canada and the U.S. speaking out being critical. Imagine the vulnerable position that put me in vis a vis my colleagues that I work with who primarily aren't indigenous. My students who are primarily not indigenous. And then the people in the higher up in university who rely on funding from sometimes questionable sources and people who were very concerned. So there was a lot of people calling for my resignation and for me not to get tenure from a multitude of forms like even politicians were contacting Ryerson saying you need to get rid of her. And thank goodness that they they had a vision about what it means to engage in reconciliation with indigenous peoples.
Pam Palmater: And this was even before the TRC report Truth and Reconciliation Report, where the president at the time, Sheldon Levy, were telling all of these people, You see this woman protesting in the street, she's protecting your rights as well as her rights. Imagine if you didn't have the right to speak out against an injustice. Imagine if you got fired for speaking out against a human rights violation or something that was happening to you. So that's something that should be celebrated and not punished, and because of a different way of thinking that made it so that I ended up staying at Ryerson and I ended up getting my tenure and I got promoted to full professor. And many other indigenous people don't experience that. You know, they they are in very vulnerable positions and it's a very difficult position. But that's why I say it shouldn't be on us. Imagine if I had to spend my whole time fighting Ryerson University. You've got to make curriculum changes, you've got to make staffing changes, you've got to change the way you talk about things. That's an awful lot of work and it's a burden that shouldn't be on us. So the fact that Ryerson has taken up that call but and other universities have taken up that call is a positive sign because it's their work to do ours.
LeAndra Nephin: I am in complete agreement with that, and I guess I really like that. You kind of are explaining your journey behind the scenes, what was happening, you know, particularly because a lot of us don't see that side of things that you're you're potentially facing the loss of your your job. As you said, it shouldn't be controversial because what's controversial about human rights, right? It shouldn't be controversial. But when we think about kind of natives who are navigating those two spaces between, you know, having professional jobs in that world of, you know, Western world or whatever you want to call it, non-native world and then having to navigate that space of fighting for your human rights and being on the front line of some of these grassroots movements, it can really be a difficult space for a lot of them to navigate. And I'm glad that you kind of brought that up. So I want to, I guess, kind of talk a little bit about land back and kind of land acknowledgements because this is something that has kind of come up as a bit of a topic in terms of people critiquing land acknowledgements when there's no real action behind that. I mean, what are your thoughts on the on that?
Pam Palmater: Oh my gosh, so much to say on land back and land acknowledgements But first, I just want to just quickly say that for all of the other indigenous staff, students and academics, they're not always in a safe place to be able to speak out safely. And my motto when people ask me what they should or shouldn't do or they feel guilty about not speaking out, I always say safety first. We live in a violent society which is not friendly to native people in Canada and the U.S. generations of genocide. There are economic implications to what we do political. So always safety first and never feel guilty that you have to survive first and then advocate later or find safe other other ways to advocate, maybe not in your place of employment where there would be a conflict, but in other areas. So always safety first. And it's the same for land back. It's a significant amount of personal risk to your personal freedom risk to your personal safety risk, to ever getting a job risk to your relationships with your family or community and your friends. To be a land defender, a water protector, to be someone that stands on the front lines to consistently say You are not going to build man camps here, you're not going to continue murdered and missing here, you're not going to destroy our environment, you're not going to take another inch of our land because of all of this colonization that puts us in a hard place and the land back movement, I would say it's not even really related to land.
Pam Palmater: Acknowledgements I mean, land back is really about land back. No, it's not about saying to everyone who lives in a house, in a neighborhood, Oh, you're being kicked out of your home. And you have to go to your country of origin, I've never heard anyone say that in all honesty, but land back is there's a lot of land that's under so-called crown lands, whether it's federal and provincial in Canada or federal and state in the United States, or under parks or under lease or under some leases or licences or otherwise could be transferred back to indigenous peoples without hurting any third party interests. And here's the other area. Even in areas where there's third party interests, there's nothing to say that we can't actually own that land and govern that land and benefit from, say, property taxes from those lands. Until those people go to dispense with those lands, they go to sell it, or Native American tribes or First Nations could have first options on those kinds of like. There's so many different scenarios where we could get land back so easily. I'm well, I'm not surprised. It's disappointing that it hasn't been done. And then you look at land acknowledgements, land acknowledgements, I think have very good intentions and it depends on how we use land acknowledgments. But they can't be the be all end all. It can't just be. Here's my work as a settler or a university or a business or a government that I'm going to every day before. Oh, Canada or God, save the Queen, I'm going to say, and this is the traditional territory of being my people.
Pam Palmater: And anyway, in other news, Blah blah blah and you go on with your announcements. It's been treated as a rote thing that you say at meetings, at conferences, at whatever, for the most part, and that's almost insulting. It's like saying that this house used to be yours and we stole it. We recognize it used to be yours. But anyway, let's just carry on and it's I want to stop them at the but anyway, I want them to say, yes, this is traditional territory. And here's what I'm going to do as government ex business ex university ex to advocate for land back to give land back, to compensate, to remediate, to stand in solidarity with indigenous peoples until we have some fair land back scenarios in progress. That's what I want to hear, and that's where most organizations, groups or entities fall down in the here's the acknowledgment, but you haven't said what you're going to do about it or what your role in it is or how you benefit for our ongoing dispossession. And that's the hard part. We've got all the easy stuff. Important symbolic rhetoric is important, but when it comes to actually, where's the painful stuff for you? Transfer land and wealth and resources, back and joint government or exclusive governance over territories, that's a little bit harder. But that's how, you know, it's real reconciliation when it's like, ooh, it's kind of moving power and wealth around back to where it should be.
LeAndra Nephin: It reminds me of that. It was a journal which I think you probably heard of is decolonization isn't a metaphor, I think is the name, or I probably have it wrong. But I'm thinking in terms of decolonization, as far as backing that up with action in terms of what are we doing to actively give land back as non-native academics or non-native people who are seeking to decolonise institutions or, like you said, do these kind of land? Acknowledgements But what action is really underpinning that? And so I guess one of the things that you mentioned was kind of your involvement in movements around native resistance and solidarity amongst natives in Canada and the United States. So I wondered if you could speak to those experiences, particularly, you know, in relation to some of the work that you've done with idle no more. Can you just kind of talk us through that as well?
Pam Palmater: Yeah. So I don't know. More was very visible. It was in the international news for many, many months, and part of my role was as an organizer, a public educator, a spokesperson. There was no organizational structure, so I didn't get elected. I wasn't paid to do this or anybody else. We were all just doing this kind of organically to advance our issues and really bring people together. But the work that most people don't see that Idle Mama did and really still does, you know? And you could call it under the idle no more movement, indigenous nationhood, movement, land back movement. I mean, the name isn't so important. It's that not only were we doing stuff in a very public way, but we knew at the time it wouldn't last forever. No social movement in terms of mass protests or marches or rallies or demonstrations lasts forever. So we had to think about what are we going to be doing behind the scenes and on a go forward basis to make sure we keep up the momentum. And what's really great is many of us who were involved in some organizational way in idle, no more work with First Nations behind the. Scenes we we were already doing that, and so we were well placed to help First Nations leaders craft letters, strategize on litigation, support them in negotiations on particular things, but because we are grassroots people, we are also very well placed in communities with grassroots groups to say, OK, well, unfortunately, the leadership doesn't feel like it can move on this issue because the government is is really putting pressure on.
Pam Palmater: But that doesn't ever stop the grassroots people from saying, Oh yeah, government, you don't want to act well. Us grannies are going to go sit on the front lines for three months and we're going to beat and do culture and language and maybe even host camps and teach kids. But we're going to be on the front lines and we're not going to let you put one foot over this territory for your project until you deal with us as a community. And that's super effective because we know the pressure that gets put on tribal leaders and First Nation leaders. It's unbearable and here in Canada, nearly one hundred percent funded by the federal government. And so they hold significant levers over our people. Whether or not we're going to get health care or housing or clean drinking water depends entirely on whether the feds find favour with us or not. So knowing that we can't undo that right now, the people have so much power. So it's about helping to strategize and lift their voices. So if they're not getting enough media attention, those of us who are regularly in mainstream media as commentators or public speakers or things like that, we have the power to find ways to lift their voices and then put them in the mainstream media or help advocate on their behalf or use social media tools like we have podcasts, YouTube videos, tik talks, you name it to get the issue out there.
Pam Palmater: And that has been profoundly effective, I'd say, in my estimation. Obviously, there's lots of different opinions, but I would say in the last 20 years, the most significant progress we've made on hard issues have come from individual activists or small groups of activists. So that little group of grannies that stopped a company from dumping hydrofracking materials into a river or someone who stopped logging, or someone who brought all of these issues to the media and made the government look bad. And then they kind of had to, oh, I guess we can't do these things without talking to the community. So we expect our first Asian leaders or tribal leaders to do this all by themselves. They're going to lose, and it's the same with the community members. If they have to do it by themselves, they're going to lose. But when we got each other's back in different forms and we use that strategically and then the rest of us who are placed in social media or mainstream media can help amplify those voices. It's very effective and I think, in fact, that that's the wave of the future. In the past, it used to be our native political organizations that would speak on behalf of all First Nations or all tribes. But I find that's less and less effective now and more effective is the people on the ground really exercising their sovereignty and governing powers. And it's just it's so inspiring, and it's why I stay in this work because they're getting the job done.
LeAndra Nephin: I mean, when you're when you're thinking about kind of even in your experience, you know, having that experience on the front line, but also behind the scenes in the boardrooms where a lot of that change and negotiation is happening as well. So you're kind of exposed to both kind of scenarios. But in terms of the front line where we've kind of had a few interviews and stories, particularly around some of these grassroots movements and how kind of brutal and violent some of those exchanges can be, particularly with the police or RCMP. So in terms of your experience, how have you managed to interface with that in terms of the violence that occurs when you're talking about Romney's on the front line? I mean, how do you navigate that space in a way that isn't kind of creating even more trauma?
Pam Palmater: You know, I wish I had a really good answer to that, but similar to my answer around how to advocate and push institutions to decolonise and things like that, even more so on the front lines. Your face to face with guns like literally guns and people willing to shoot you and do shoot you at disproportionate rates. I mean, in the United States, we know police disproportionately kill Native Americans just like they do here in Canada. The rates of sexualized violence by police officers, corrections officers and prisons, you name it like. So even segments, some segments of society, you know, you've got truckers and human traffickers, and it's like we live in a violent society that violent towards indigenous peoples. And so I always tell especially young people who are really energetic and want to get out there and help and be enthusiastic on the front lines. Always safety first. Safety first. We need you to be a warrior here, 10 years from now, 20 years from now, 30 years from now. Safety always has to come first, and so sometimes people get disappointed when we don't take a specific action or we don't extend a length of time, for example, or we don't defend our lands in a certain way. And people are like, Hey, why aren't you doing X, Y and Z? Well, what they don't know is that we have had to navigate some threats behind the scenes to make sure that everybody's safe.
Pam Palmater: And I think especially for indigenous women and girls, it is so, so important that we think safety first. That being said, I think us working together in solidarity helps empower one another. We're stronger together. So if the grannies know that while they're sitting on the front lines, there are some warriors in the background making sure that the area is safe, that there's constantly people bringing food and water, that there's human rights watchers, that there's legal observers like when you put all those safety mechanisms in place, when there's cameras everywhere. So everyone sees what's happening and there's all eyes on what's going on. Those are some of the ways in which we can keep people safe and still accomplish what our goals are. And I think that's just one of those things. I mean, I don't have any strategies around that because as you are probably aware, each scenario is different, each territory is different, the risk is different. What they're willing to do is different. We know here in Canada they will unleash private security, they will unleash local police forces, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Force. They'll even release their own army against our people.
Pam Palmater: So we've had tanks, snipers, explosive devices, helicopters, dogs, you name it just well. Like I said, I don't even need to tell you because look what happened with Dakota Access Pipeline, peaceful land and water protectors, and they're literally facing all of those things that I just mentioned. So it's about really trying to work behind the scenes to make sure that everybody's safe. And those are some of the things like the tips and strategies and things like that we tend to talk about amongst ourselves when we're planning. It's not something that we publish widely online, nor do we talk about the threats so much widely and publicly, because all that does is encourage more people to be violent or attack us. So we try to minimize those kinds of things. It's interesting that they watch us as they consider us to be domestic terrorists or insurgents or threats to national security, or all of those ways in which they justify watching us, surveilling us, monitoring us, criminalizing us. But in fact, we don't bring the guns to the party. They do. And so we are actually more at risk from state intervention than they are from us. And that's just something about public education to make sure the public, Canadians and Americans know very well what's happening.
LeAndra Nephin: I think that kind of makes me think about Canada's response in terms of the genocide that is happening against native people. And in particular, as you mentioned, ah, you know, indigenous women and girls on the front lines and involved in these grassroots. We're seeing more and more kind of criminalized criminalization of a lot of these, you know, our people who are basically, as you even mentioned before that a professor had mentioned that you were actually fighting for the rights, not just of your own, but for everybody. And when you think about the statement that United Nations have put out in terms of climate change. And so when we are criminalizing, those people are people who are fighting, not just for our own future, for our children's future, for our descendants future, but everybody's future. What are your thoughts on that in terms of what's kind of happening with the RCMP and how the criminalization of those that are advocating for climate change?
Pam Palmater: I'm so glad you asked that because criminalization is real, people have been sold. This myth in Canada, in the U.S. and basically other countries that criminals or people, bad people, they do bad things and they're breaking the law and so they deserve whatever they get. Presumably incarceration or whatever else. And there's not enough thought or education, especially in the K to 12 education system about what the role of criminalization is and how criminalization of people defending human rights is, in fact against the law and how these countries use what they refer to as the rule of law in a way that really messes it up and makes it the law of rulers. So people in power pick and choose which laws to apply, which laws apply, to whom and when and under what circumstances. And they even think they have the power to interpret what courts have. Said, to the extent that they've literally reverse what courts have said, and so there's it's a myth to think that any of these states follow the rule of law. It really is the law of rulers and indigenous peoples, human rights activists, women's groups, anti-poverty groups, environmental groups, homelessness groups, people who care about people and the planet have pointed this out and are more and more engaged in helping to educate the public. Because I find generally, once the public is more educated and informed about these issues, they're far more likely to join on as allies, friends, supporters or use their influence in direct or indirect, subtle ways to affect change or put pressure on government. Because we know governments don't give anybody anything. That's the women's rights movement only came about because women didn't just protest.
Pam Palmater: One day, they spent generations advocating and educating and pushing for equality. It's the same with civil rights. It's the same with human rights. It's the same with indigenous rights. This wasn't just government saying out of the goodness of our hearts. Here you go. We're going to recognize you have some rights. Everything is hard fought for, and everything that we hard fought for can equally be lost just as quick with legislation that allows drivers to run over protesters if they want to, you know. And those are some disturbing developments in both in the United States and in Canada, where protesters can be criminalized, treated as domestic terrorists. I mean, that's really quite alarming that you can have entirely surveilled and treated without any rights at all, be they charter or civil rights and the rates at which incarceration of indigenous peoples, at least in Canada, is skyrocketing. Instead of getting better, it's getting profoundly worse across for indigenous men and women and indigenous kids in. I mean, there are some prisons that are almost 100 percent indigenous here in this country. That is startling and alarming. And then for those who aren't incarcerated, but they get criminal charges or they get stacked up criminal charges, they effectively act like life sentences. So when you criminalize and convict someone for standing in the way of development, you're now reducing their opportunity to get employment. You're reducing their opportunity to even apply to live in an apartment if they have a criminal record. So while it's not a life sentence in terms of living in prison, you are affecting their life outcomes by criminalizing them. And the vast majority of the actions that we're doing as native people in Canada and the U.S.
Pam Palmater: are peaceful, unarmed, based in law, even state laws. And that's the bitter irony of it. Like, actually, we're using your human rights, we're using your constitution, we're using your laws that say, you can't discriminate, you can't commit violence against us police. You know, you really can't be shooting people, unarmed people all the time. You can't be racial profiling. You can't be brutalizing people. You can't be engaged in corruption, all of these things. And so the criminalization trend is really important because it's not just this criminalization that impacts people's lives and freedoms and opportunities, but is being tied more and more to domestic terrorism and giving some kind of perceived justification to criminalize us even more, to violate our rights, to put that on our heads. And then what does that do that also impacts our relationships in our communities? So then land defenders that are portrayed by politicians or police officers as radicals, rogues, criminals with criminal histories than people in the community are like, Oh my goodness, we don't want those people representing us. And then it causes internal community tension. And that's not a mistake that's typical divide and conquer. You portrayed these people as troublemakers and the good Indians and the bad Indians. You know that ongoing dilemma. So it's important that we just keep pointing it out and we do everything we can to have eyes on defenders and make sure that there is video and pictures and audio and human rights observers and legal observers whenever we can, because that helps prevent some of the criminalization or the violence that would otherwise happen if people weren't watching.
LeAndra Nephin: I think that was one of the things that I kind of picked out in terms of what you were saying earlier around putting in these kind of safety measures, almost building out to kind of add those layers of protection around the people. So not just on the front lines, but even behind the scenes, creating a layer of even accountability through video recording, making sure that that is documented. So I've just you just been absolutely amazing. I've learned so much just in listening to you and your story is just incredibly. Inspiring, but also it seems written in the stars in terms of your path. It seems that the ancestors were calling you to this life and your position perfectly with your education in law, education and academia, but also having that really nice, rooted, grounded knowledge in indigenous life ways. So what can people do to support you and to support the work that you're doing in idle? No more and kind of even the organizations that you're involved with? I mean, how can our listeners be more involved with with some of the projects that you're advocating for?
Pam Palmater: Well, allies, friends and supporters ask me that all the time, and I always say, if you need a place to start, I have a website. It's called Pimpama. On that website, you will see all of my academic publications, if that's what you're interested in. The research, the data, all of my op deeds for newspapers, magazines, mainstream media, all of that there on current issues. So if you want to know what's happening, what the potential indigenous take is on these issues, all of that there, it's easy reading. I make everything open access, but if you want to learn more and hear indigenous voices or get more analysis, you can access my YouTube literally from my website. And I talk about all of these issues and try to say, here's what's happening in Wet'suwet'en territory. Here's what's happening in Nick Moggy. And with each one of those videos, I always post links to say, Here's where you can donate to the land defenders, or here's a letter you can write, or here's a petition you can sign. My goal through my website and all of my work, including My Warrior Life podcast, which lifts up the voices of Land Defenders and My Warrior Kids podcast, which is about helping to educate little kids being little warriors and help change the world, is lifting up their voices and providing education for action.
Pam Palmater: So I say over and over and over again for all of these things. It's your obligation to get educated, but you can't stop there. Now, what are you going to do about it and to make it easy for each podcast or video or writing? It's like, here's what you can do. You know, here's the one thing, and most of it doesn't cost anything, and it takes very little time, especially while you're just learning about these things. But there's always a way you can support. And of course, I'm on Patreon and buy me a coffee and those kinds of things where people can help donate to buy things like podcast mics and things that we're trying to fund on our own. Because that's another thing. Advocates tend not to be very rich. We need other jobs, like my full time job as a prop to pay the bills. But in every one of those scenarios, you will find interviews with land defenders who say, Here's where you can donate to what we're doing, or here's how you can support us. And by supporting me, you're supporting them and by supporting them. You're supporting other people and you're supporting people you'll never even know about when you support indigenous content creators and land defenders and artists and spokespeople and all of that stuff.
LeAndra Nephin: [00:39:03] I'm just amazed at how much you've got going on and how you balance all of those plates, but incredibly inspiring. I can't wait for our listeners to hear this. Hear your story here. Your journey. For me personally, it really resonated with me in terms of even my own journey because I'm going through academia and kind of doing advocacy work here in the United Kingdom. And it's and I find it really difficult sometimes to try and blend those two worlds because at the minute they're sort of kind of on divergent paths. But I hope one day that they come together like, as I've heard in terms of how your path is kind of, you know, you've been able to kind of balance those two. So, Pam, thank you so much for joining us today and for dropping those gifts of knowledge for the work that you do and for the free public access. I mean, that's just incredibly invaluable work. And I just really, really appreciate just having the honor to speak with you today and for joining us at Red House. Thank you. We thank you all to our listeners.
Pam Palmater: Well, thank you so much. It's an honor and I and I can't wait to hear from all the listeners and what all their feedback is. Thank you.
LeAndra Nephin: This has been not invisible native peoples on the front lines. A house on fire production to learn more about Pam. Follow her on Instagram. Pam underscore pedometer information about Pam's work and links to her podcast Warrior's Life are listed in today's show notes. If you enjoyed today's conversation, be sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. Have an idea for a guest? Send us a message on Instagram at Red House series. This episode was produced by Spirit Buffalo and Ashley Saunders Robinson. Our editor is Abby Franz. The song for this episode is another side by Wild Whispers produced by Ben Reno, Eli Lev and Megan Lee. I'm your host, LeAndra Nephin. Until next time, WóNgithe wíbthahaN. I thank you all.